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Title: The United States of Torture
START DATE: 6/11/2005
Duration: 2 Hours
Location: cleveland area
Location Details:
Revolution Books
2804 Mayfield Rd. (off Coventry Rd.)
Cleveland Heights
Event Topic: meeting
Event Type: weekly
Contact Name: rev books
Contact Email:
Contact Phone: 216-932-2543
The United States of Torture … spreading freedom and democracy around the

Saturday, June 11th, 4-6pm
Revolution Books
2804 Mayfield Rd. (off Coventry Rd.)

From the latest issue of Revolution newspaper article, “The United States
of Torture”…
“’Absurd,’ said the President, to charges of American brutality, ‘The United
States is a country that promotes freedom around the world.’

Secretary of War Rumsfeld, who deserves nothing but a jail cell, insisted:
‘No force in the world has done more to liberate people that they have never
met than the men and women of the United States military.’

And meanwhile, they insist that everything the U.S. does is for lofty
purposes of "freedom" (and of course has the blessing of their god himself).

America is (they say) a force for absolute moral good. And so, they argue,
anything the "good guys" do to their enemies, no matter how brutal, must be
accepted by the world.”
(read the full article at

At last week’s discussion, the question was raised about how so many
countries around the world and through history claim they are promoting
freedom and democracy, but in truth their societies and policies are
oppressive to the majority of people. We thought it would be good to pursue
this question further in our next discussion. What is freedom, and what is
democracy? How can a so-called democratic country commit such atrocities,
then lie about it, and then when exposed, expect and pretend that people
accept it as necessary and justified ?

In a world marked by profound class divisions and social inequalities, to
talk about "democracy"--without talking about the class nature of that
democracy and which class it serves--is meaningless, and worse. So long as
society is divided into classes, there can be no "democracy for all": one
class or another will rule, and it will uphold and promote that kind of
democracy which serves its interests and goals. The question is: which class
will rule and whether its rule, and its system of democracy, will serve the
continuation , or the eventual abolition , of class divisions and the
corresponding relations of exploitation, oppression and inequality.
-Bob Avakian

Two big questions come to the surface here, that would be great to get into:
How can we (or can we) create a society that actually is devoted to the
eventual abolition of “class divisions and the corresponding relations of
exploitation, oppression and inequality”??

How can Bush and co. talk about spreading freedom and democracy around the
world while enforcing imperialist domination on Iraq with torture, and
moving towards a theocracy inside America? Are they just hypocrites, or does
their democracy rest on a foundation of exploitation?

This discussion will be taking place in the midst of the US torture being
exposed in the mainstream media, with millions having their eyes opened to
the realities of US occupation, and Amnesty International calling for an
International Day of Action Against Torture this June 26th. On the other
side, John Yoo, the deputy assistant attorney general, says the debate is
over, the issue is dying out. Not if we have anything to say about it!

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